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Technique is always on the coaches -- size is not -- but what my friend the scout told me is that some of these guys had technique issues. And Vrabel should have come back shown what he could do -- especiall with his pedigree.
Not sure what you mean by size... but you often hear of players gaining or losing lots of weight in the pursuit of their ideal "size" and IMO that falls on the coaches.

If an NFL team gives you a contract, then that means they saw something.

Same concept goes for all those kids that get drafted coming out of Schools like Northern Iowa, Tulsa, Chattanooga (First Round), North and South Dakota State and many more... where its clear that either scouts messed up or their coaches did a solid job developing kids that had lesser coaching in High School.


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Somehow my 2 replies got merged:

Like I said, try and get something for Mayfield before you trade the farm and the future farm for Watson.

Sadly, only hope is if a QB gets injured that a team trades for him.

First pick Round 1, no takers for that $18M anchor.

At least Browns have starter in case Watson gets a few more games suspension.

Steelers drafted a QB from South Dakota Chris Oladakun and he threw perfect darts in his highlight film? Kid looked solid but who knows?

I mean you never know, but at least Steelers have 4 guys competing?

My sources tell me that Baker will not suit up for the Browns. They can trade him if someone is desperate, but he doesn't see any advantage to suiting up as a backup and sitting on the bench. The only thing I can fathom is that the Browns know the their new QB will not be penalized any more than he already has been, but given the normal practices of the NFL for anything to do with women, that doesn't seem to be typical. There were so many great linemen on both sides of the ball -- they could have waited to see if Mayfield would be a better QB when he is not hurt and then gone all in for a QB next year after they made a trade and got so great draft choices or return players for him.

After the Bauer MLB fiasco over rough mutual sex and him losing most of last year and now the next two years pending appeal

and with no criminal conviction

just a he said, she said, and no police detective investigation indictments, who knows what Goodell will do to please the super left media and women’s groups like Manfred.

NFL, like all corporations, is now all about PR image so this may mean Watson sits a few more games?

Men are convicted guilty before any trial and the new menu of charges leveled by any true or lying accused can destroy anyone which is truly dangerous.

Johnny Deep case may end up a win for him and a tap the brakes on these accusations and suspensions until a legal court conviction.

Bauer may be a real sleazy asshole, but still never convicted of a crime?

My guess is the legal challenge might reduce it to this season since Asshole Manfred who is ruining baseball, has to look the woke hero.

I mean 2 1/2 years is way excessive but MLB may prevail? Sitting 1/2 years should be fair?

Mayfield may be inactive during season like Watson was last year until a trade or release?

Houston GM played his hand magnificently with other teams and then fleeced Browns like no other trade since Hershel Walker. What Houston got was more than Dallas got back then.

What if in the light of Bauer action by MLB, Goodell suspends Watson for 8 games or more and a healthy Mayfield with a better OL and all has a great season?

Do you sit Watson then when he returns? What if Mayfield knows this going in and decides to not play without a contract extension, or takes half and walks when Watson returns?

NFL trade deadline date better be after any possible Watson suspension, or Mayfield can say goodbye!

My Browns over the last decades are possibly the worst run franchise in sports.
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One thing possibly at work in the Browns/Mayfield situation is the rest of the league is furious at Haslam for the 100% guarantee to Watson and want CLE to twist in the wind a little bit on this. I did not know that for all guaranteed contracts the actual cash has to be placed in escrow. That's a quarter billion in this case.


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two things here:

Penny I meant to respond to 99's post: 'Lindstrom was undersized, Vrabel was constantly hurt for two straight seasons and Petrula was what he was. I don’t know how any of that is on the coaches." So, that was what I was referring to about size.

74, It could be that the league believes the one year Watson has already not played is enough, but that may be a harder sell now that TB got 2 years for that incident.

It still confounds me that the Browns went into we-have-to win-next-year mood with a QB that no one knows yet if he will be allowed to play and who has not played for a long time. And it seems reasonable that Mayfield will have a better year this year as he is not supposed to be hurt.

It is easy to be critical of the Browns but after all those coaches and then this move -- and I am not a fan like 74 -- but the Browns were awesome in the past and the town deserves better than it has gotten recently -- but why did the team play Mayfield last year when he was hurt -- it made no sense and greatly decreased his trade value. All I hear is how you need a great QB -- but that hasn't helped Greenbay win except once this century -- and even in last year's SB, it was an outstanding defensive play that preserved the victory. Great QB's are a necessity, but without the rest of the team -- especially the defense, they do not win championships. All Buffalo had to do was hold KC for less than 20 seconds and they couldn't do it because the defense failed to hold -- Looking at this upcoming year, the team with one of the best D's is Denver -- will that coupled with the mile-high atmosphere and Russell's slow pace be enough to win?

I think the Browns are desperate to win now -- and I think that clouded their thinking -- and the contract they offered Watson is so far off the charts that it has already changed how the league will be forced to pay its QBs from now on. I just don't understand the move as there is no guarantee that if Watson gets to play, that his play would be enough to win the division for the Browns.


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74, It could be that the league believes the one year Watson has already not played is enough, but that may be a harder sell now that TB got 2 years for that incident ==

Goodell & NFL have not acted yet and Houston sat him on their own terms.

Imagine Browns getting off to a solid start and Mayfield at QB and then Mr. Massage at $230M guaranteed comes back in Game 8 or just before trading deadline.

If NFL suspends Watson before season and Mayfield is healthy, Baker has all the options.

  1. Browns can cut him and he gets $18M and can sign anywhere,
  2. Browns buy him out and he is FA like Nick Foles this AM.
  3. Baker can just show up and go Harpo Marx silent and play for $18M
  4. Baker can sit, collect $18M and watch Dobbs or Brissett.
Baker's best bet is to go Harpo Marx and just let the Browns twist in the wind or tell them pay me $15M out of $18M and I'll walk away.

Browns GM Andrew Berry, from the brilliant Eagles organization that worked under the Genius Howie Roseman and with Jets Joe Douglas, and then returned to Browns appears now to be an arrogant Harvard Punk.

Berry is the youngest NFL GM and a diversity affirmative action role model.

Where were the extra draft picks for his diversity hire for the Browns?

How did the Browns owner, (I know he is an idiot) let this smug assclown trade all those high picks for a QB with unknown suspension games or worse and never won anything?

How can the Jets and Eagles be so brilliant and this stooge be so inept and incompetent?

Massage Parlor Face of the Franchise.

Ah, welcome to the new America!
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  • Texans receive: Three first-round picks (2022, 2023, 2024), one third-round pick (2023), two fourth-round picks (2022, 2024). .

  • Browns receive: Deshaun Watson, 2024 sixth-round pick
Watson is the new Tom Brady without the 7 Super Bowl Wins and 3 Losses.

No 1st round picks in next 2 years too.

Some insiders knew that Houston was never going to play him and the Browns and all others had solid leverage but Elite Ivy Leaguer Berry ate the whole diseased diarrhea burger and did not checking or preparation work.


GM VeryBerryStupid was fleeced beyond what he should had done which was giving the Texans conditional 2nd and 3rd picks in one year, maybe 2022>>>

to the whole franchise foundation which is high draft picks. or any franchise in any sport.

I am now picking a new team to root for after 62 years with some of our Eagles!

Maybe I'll go with the Colts and Ice or Buffalo with Milano and Sweeney?
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How can the Jets and Eagles be so brilliant and this stooge be so inept and incompetent?

It's way more likely this was owner driven. Get Watson. Get it done or I'm going to be REALLY disappointed. If the GM wants to keep being GM, he doesn't want the owner VERY disappointed. But it all better work or the GM will have to accept the blame.


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If you ever find out, let me know.

What is the GM gonna do missing next 2 years 1st Rounder and the other picks too?


I know with my old Black & White composition books with prayer indulgences, Mass Cards and Novenas I accumulated a few billion years off in Purgatory.

Now that purgatory has been re-instated, when I meet St. Peter when I get to the Judgement Day waiting line at the Gates of Heaven, Ill play the big sympathy card to get some fan support for the big review before God the Father….

“BC Eagles, NY Ranger & Knicks and Cleveland Browns fan here!”

After Jesus steps up big for me with my long card of sins and I am redeemed and cleansed…

St. Peter will hopefully say,

“Your forgiveness redemption ticket is punched so step out of the rain into the big Retractable Dome and go get a nice Veal Parm sub at the Food Truck!

I’ll get your luxury suite ready!”

or…we’ll, I guess, I hope that happens.

I’ll have to change my signature which never shows up, probably my error, as the 20 year …

BC Minister of Truth.
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Remember, Jeremiah kept asking God to let him live in peace, but then God would put words in his mouth and he would stand in the Temple area screaming at all the authorities to repent and even hid the Ark of the Covenant when all was lost and the Jews were kicked out of Power League.


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What is the GM gonna do missing next 2 years 1st Rounder and the other picks too?

Pray. The idea that "the future is now" is back with the Rams SB win after they sold the farm. The guy who said that first was George Allen in 1972 with the Redskins. He was fired by 1975.